Curt Smith

Curt Smith: While I got here by going through that, which I'm eternally grateful for, I think that it just takes time, really. The reason I didn't comment on it much early on, and certainly not much at the time it was actually happening, was there was no way I could be objective about it. I honestly believe that if you're going to speak to people, if you're going to put it in the press - speaking to your friends is one thing, but talking to people in an interview situation where they're going to print everything you say, you've just got to realize that it's going to be cold. They won't hear inflections or anything like that. The last thing I wanted to do was seem incredibly bitter about the whole thing, but without question when I left I was incredibly angry, because of everything that had built up. And I knew that wasn't going to last, so there was no point in talking about it.

lexx: Was it hard at the time to distance yourself from all the negativity and speculation circulating through the music press about the breakup?

CS: No, I don't think it was really hard. I think it was the wisest choice I made. I just didn't want to be a part of all that. Basically, had I got into all that, it would really negate the reason I left, which was to avoid all that. Roland and I were already going through all that in our personal relationship and our musical relationship - why would I want to jump straight back into something like that, be it with Roland through the press or to the press in general? I mean, it's just pointless. The whole idea of leaving and trying to get a bit of my persaonl sanity back was to avoid things like that. I wanted to enjoy what I was doing. The whole thing was, I needed to sort things out - what I wanted to do in my personal life and my musical life, everything really, and I didn't want anyone else involved in that, apart from the people closest to me.

lexx: Very smart. So you took some time off, and then at some point decided to get back into it. How did you know it was time?

CS: Hmm... When I started writing the first song. [laughs] It was as simple as that, literally. After leaving Tears I did a solo record that was incredibly bad, I had no clue what I was doing. And so after that I really just consciously said, I'm not going to write anymore. Either I'm going to give up and do something else - which would be involved in music, but stop being the artist, maybe it's not for me anymore - or the only way I can continue this is to really allow it to be a completely natural process and something I can't avoid, which is the way it was when I first started. So, you know, I took a step sideways and avoided playing and writing and all of that. And just put my guitars away, and I did other things.

lexx: What did you do? Were you still dabbling in music? I know you did some hosting with MTV for a while, right?

CS: Yeah, I did MTV for a while, and I did a syndicated college radio show for quite a while.

lexx: How was that? Did you enjoy it?

CS: Definitely, yeah. That was fun and actually that was the stepping stone to me picking up a guitar again.

lexx: Oh really?

CS: Yeah, because they were primarily sort of ...well, not independent bands - they were all signed to major labels - but they were all new and appealed to the college market, so they were all these sort of new or alternative bands. And the show was a live show - not that it went out live, but it was recorded live in the studio, i.e. the bands came in and played live. So basically I would sit in the studio, they would play, and I would interview them in between, and they would play and then we'd chat and they'd play another song, and it was all live. And it was watching the exceitment that they had - no matter what age, it was the fact that they were just thoroughly enjoying it.

lexx: Which is really the essence of why you do what you do.

CS: Exactly, exactly. And toward the end of doing that radio show, I started to get jealous. [laughs]

lexx: Decided you wanted to jump back in?

CS: Well, yeah, because I remembered - it sort of came back to me, what it was like. And unfortunately, the last few years of Tears for Fears that was pretty much kicked out of me. Music was a job, but wasn't something that I enjoyed, it was something I did for a living. And you kind of forget what it's supposed to be like. So after I finished doing the radio show, probably about a month afterward, I started - the occasion actually was, I was reading a book, and a song title came to mind.

lexx: Do you remember what the book was?

CS: It was ..... it was a Douglas Coupland book.

lexx: Hmm.Douglas Coupland? Let's see.. was it Microserfs? I hear they're making a movie of that, you know.

CS: Really? Yeah, that was a great book, but no, it wasn't Microserfs, it was one of the other ones. Anyway, his mother in it was called "Jasmine." And there was actually a sentence from that, because his mother was apparently very peculiar. [laughs] "Jasmine's tastes were...." whatever.

lexx: Ah, so that's where that comes from.

CS: Yeah, that's where that came from. It was like: "Jasmine's Taste." What a great title! But of course, the song that I actually wrote eventually had nothing to do with the premise of the book, but I just liked the ... I don't know, I just liked that title.

lexx: Something about it just... spoke to you.

CS: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I picked up the guitar and started writing that song, and it became about someone else entirely, but ...

lexx: But that was the seed, sort of.

CS: Precisely. I'd forgotten - because I'd taken so much time away, I think - that the process was easy, and I was having fun with it. I didn't have any preconceived ideas of recording an album, forming a band, or any of the above, I just wanted to write something that was just what I felt like right then. And then I also wanted to collaborate with someone else in New York as well, because I'm not into the sort of lonely, one-person-sits-down-by-himself thing. So I called a friend of mine at Polygram Publishing, and asked him if he knew anyone - because I've known him for years, the president of Polygram, so he knows me personally, and he's not going to put me together with someone or get me to meet someone that I'm not going to get on with - and he said, "Well, this guy Charlton Pettus is signed to us as a writer. You'd get on with him great. " So I went and met him, and we did get on great, and we started writing, and we're still writing.

lexx: And making history, we hope, right?

CS: Well, you never know ... at least in our own heads...

lexx: No, it is a great record, you're too modest. But that is part of the key isn't it? Getting with other people where there's a spark there?

CS: Yeah. I mean, there's a spark and it's fun.... It's intense on one level, because you're really serious about it, but on another level it can be really lighthearted and fun. We just wrote a bunch of songs, and I went in and demo'd it, and then I listened to all the demos we did over Christmas the year before last, and decided that all this music suits a live band, because it's all written on acoustic guitar. So next I went about forming a band and playing live before I actually recorded it. All the material actually was played live before it was ever recorded.

lexx: In fact you played a rather infamous venue the other night, CBGB's in New York, right?

CS: Yeah, we did that last week.

lexx: How did it go?

CS: It was great. Started a little late, at 11:30, but it was great. The whole thing is - as I've always said, everything in New York is always within walking distance, so that's fine. Just walk around the corner. [laughs] It really was fun, because it was the first gig since Charlton had a baby - well, his wife had a baby - the week before last. So I had to call him like 15 minutes before we went on, because he wanted to spend that last 10 minutes with the baby.

lexx: You must accommodate the baby. That's the rule.

CS: [laughs] Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it was a good gig, like I said. And we've done a couple of acoustic things too, like on Saturday we did an in-store thing down here, at Sam Goody's. It's part of the nice thing with the music right now, and with this project, because it was written on acoustic and it's far more organic, and it's not created in the studio - the studio is secondary to the live side of it, in a way - we can do that, we can do those sorts of shows. All the songs lend themselves to just being played on acoustic guitar, because that's how they were written. So we just go and use two acoustics. And an accordian, actually.

lexx: An accordian. Ah! But sort of getting back to the basics of doing it. Definitely that's one way this experience is different for you?

CS: Well, it's continually fun. There's no backing in the sense of - I mean, even Tears, at the end, we still had Fairlights and sequencers and all the rest of that crap, so we could never change the set, any day of the week. We had to play the song the same length every night in exactly the same way every night. And with this project, I have none of that. I can change anything, every time we play. Some stuff we rearrange, and some stuff can be two minutes longer one just 'cause you feel like it, and to have that freedom is wonderful.

lexx: I'd think so. I'd think it'd be a much more exciting experience for the audience too.

CS: Yeah - it just relieves any sense of boredom that may come upon you, playing the same songs so many times.

lexx: The thing too, don't you think, is that it makes it more real or more pure or something.

CS: It does, because everyone has been to shows, and many have been to every one of them. And every single show is different. You know? You never know what's going to happen that night, if it's going to be different or whatever. It's not one of those things where you go and see a show and it's the same. In some way it's going to be different from every show we've done.

lexx: I know you've been really doing a lot of interviewing and appearances the past couple months, talking to lots of people. Does it all start to run together at some point and just get too tiresome?

CS: Well, the whole thing about the interview process - which by the way is far easier than it was before as well - is that now it's just me. So I know all the answers. [laughs]

lexx: Hey, good point! So does that feel alot freer? I'd think it would be incredibly freeing.

CS: Oh yeah, it's amazingly liberating, to do exactly what you want. And not only to be able to play musically what you want, but not to be tied to any major labels or whatever.

lexx: Right, you're doing the whole thing now, the record company [Zerodisc Records] and all. How's that working out - are you going to be looking at any new bands to sign any time soon?

CS: Yeah. In fact, I'm looking at one now that hopefully I'm going to get. They're English, and we chatted while they were in New York last week, so I'm trying to get them over here to start recording. Hopefully that will be the first signing.

lexx: Wow - record company guru.

CS: Well, the thing is for me at this point, I want to continue being in the position I am now, which is enjoying it. I want to write when I feel like writing, and I want to record when I feel like recording, and the whole point is, I don't feel like it all the time. Because, well for one thing, I'm not as young, basically, and I'm not as hungry as I used to be.

lexx: Wait, wait ..... you're still pretty young, relatively speaking. I mean, we're around the same age - You're making me feel old! [laughs nervously]

CS: No, no, no.... you know what I mean. You just get a little older and you have a tendency to go for more stability. Maybe you want to go at a more relaxed pace.

lexx: Actually I do know what you mean, yeah. And I was thinking about this last night, 'How much do we really want to get into this Tears for Fears stuff? Do we even need to talk about it?' And the thing is, people do want to know about it, and you know they do. But going into it maybe they have this idea of what happened with the split, but it might be a distorted idea. You know, there's the lurid stuff, there's the negativity. And when you really think about it, it's just not really that different than the process that everybody goes through. On the surface things might look a certain way, and the papers or whatever might sensationalize it, but in actuality it boils down to the natural process people go through as their objectives change.

CS: Right. Precisely - it's no different than ... you know, you have a fight with a friend and never speak to them again. I mean, I think everyone's gone through that, don't you? Pretty much? At some point in your life, you had a friend that you had a huge fight with and you just realized that the two of you were so different, and just - screw that, life's too short. When I say "most people," I just mean I'm sure a lot of people must've gone through that.

lexx: Definitely. I know I have. And like you said before, it's not that it's any big mystery why these things happen...

CS: Yeah - as they say, "it's no big whoop." It's evolution. I'm frankly shocked that we lasted as long as we did. And actually, you know - the primary feeling when you've taken enough time away from it and you can be objective about it, is that most of those years were great. It was really only the last few that were a real pain. [laughs] I mean, out of 16 years, 12 or 13 ain't bad, you know? And unfortunately it's done in the public eye, the whole breakup thing and me leaving. But I never said anything about it at the time. In fact, the only thing I said was in an article I wrote myself, actually, in Details magazine. I got to write that article myself, instead of being interviewed, because I wanted to put out there exactly how I felt.

lexx: And isn't that the freedom thing again - you can actually go out there and say what you want to say, and it's not twisted, and it's not filtered through other people.

CS: Exactly. Which is, again, the joy of the internet, which means I can answer directly.

lexx: Let's talk a bit more about your current band. Tell me how Mayfield came into existence.

Curt Smith: Mayfield came into existence around 18 months ago. I had written what I considered to be an album's worth of songs, mainly with Charlton Pettus, and decided that I wanted to try them live, as I hadn't performed for nearly 6 years. Also I thought it would help the recording process when I got around to making an album. The guys in the band are relatively well-known NY session musicians and they all play on the album.

lexx: What plans there are for upcoming shows to support the new record - after the Brownies show in NYC later this week, any plans to do other major cities?

CS: There are no definite plans to tour as of yet, but I'm looking at August as a possibility.

lexx: I wasn't so surprised to learn that you wanted to teach English at one time... the lyrics of the new record read like poetry. "Jasmine’s taste delights in all the intricate designs of disarray."

CS: Well yes, lyrics are very important to me. I find it hard to write meaningless lyrics, although some people would disagree.... I do like to be able to read them as poetry and still find them interesting.

lexx: How did the songs evolve? Melody first, words first...? Was it a conscious decision, for instance, of "Let’s write a song about the senselessness of nationalism," which is one possible interpretation of Mother England?

CS: As to which comes first, it varies. Sometimes the idea for a song and sometimes the melody. Your interpretation of Mother England, by the way, is the correct one. It's not just about England.

lexx: Right, and it's hard not to see it as a song with a political message. Actually, a message which seems to convey a wish for NONpoliticalization. Is that fine with you - are you comfortable speaking to political or social issues?

CS: Regarding Mother England, as I've said, your interpretation is correct... and I have no problem writing political songs, after all they're just my opinion and I'm comfortable speaking about most things. I think it's a sign of age!

lexx: Don't say that! I told you, we're both in our 30s. So let's say it's a sign of maturity instead. Shifting gears, I don't want to get into politics too much, but it's all over the news so I'll ask: Do you have an opinion on the McVeigh guilty verdict and death sentence?

CS: As far as the McVeigh guilty verdict goes, I'm not a believer in the death penalty. That's not to say he doesn't deserve it, it's just that you only have to be wrong once to lose an innocent life and that's too big a price to pay. People ask me, "what if it was a member of your family murdered? Wouldn't you want revenge?" Yes, but what if it was a member of my family sitting on death row wrongly accused? I just can't justify it.

lexx: You just celebrated your first anniversary - you're still technically newlyweds, you know. Have any advice about marriage for others?

CS: Don't do it when you're too young, but when you do, enjoy it.

lexx: Do you feel substantially different inwardly now versus, say, 10 years ago? Have you grown more philosophical or relaxed? The whole feel of this record is so comfortable, somehow. I can’t help but wonder to what extent, if any, that might be a reflection of some newfound peace or resolve in your own life. Why do you think you were able to make a record like this now?

CS: I definitely feel more relaxed and stable than at any other point in my life. I think it's to do with who you surround yourself with. My wife and friends lean towards a more selfless existence and consequently give me a lot of space. I think that the people I used to be involved with in the UK were more manipulative and selfish. Growing older also plays a part.

lexx: That maturity thing again. It has been theorized that the traits of creativity and melancholy inherently go hand in hand. Have you found this to be true in your case or that of other creative types with whom you work?

CS: It's true to an extent. I find that I feel more like writing when I'm down or angry. The down side of this is that people tend to have the impression that I'm like that all the time, which couldn't be further from the truth. I do find most creative people quite insular, which is probably why they need another medium to communicate in.

lexx: The new record is on your own record label. Do you enjoy the business side of the music business? Are we witnessing the genesis of Curt Smith: Media Mogul?

CS: Yes, I enjoy the business side. I've never really liked giving any type of control to record companies, I prefer to make my own destiny.

lexx: "All I want is God." Care to elaborate?

CS: That's from Aeroplane, which is about a longing for simplicity, using childhood as a metaphor. "All I want is God" is a need to relinquish control to a greater power. If only I still believed...

lexx: Let's do some fun quick questions. "Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love." Comments?

CS: True for shallow people.

lexx: Ouch. What’s a "radio Monday?"

CS: Waking up to an alarm radio.

lexx: How did you get into running?

CS: To keep fit.

lexx: Planning to do the NYC marathon again this year?

CS: Yep!

lexx: Do you sing in the shower?

CS: Very rarely.

lexx: Or so you say. What makes you laugh?

CS: Hmm.. Steven Wright.

lexx: What song is going through your head right now?

CS: "Fake Plastic Trees" by Radiohead.

lexx: Radiohead! Excellent. But I hear you’re a fan of Blue Nile. Got a favorite track from Hats?

CS: Saturday Night.

lexx: Gorgeous song. Here around lexxicon we highly recommend Blue Nile. Here's a question about access: Did you give out your email address when you did the K-ROC [Los Angeles radio station] interview recently?

CS: Yeah, I did that. You know, it's easy to remember. And basically what I said was, Here's my email address, feel free to send me mail, just understand that it can take me a few weeks to get back to you. I may be busy that week.

lexx: And getting busier, I have a feeling.

CS: Well, slowly, yeah, but then there's always free time. And the joy, again, of computers is that they're now pretty damn portable, and even if you go off on tour or travel, you just take your laptop with you and plug it in.

lexx: Do you do that? Are you totally into that mindset now, a total geek?

CS: I am, yeah. I mean, I'm not amazing at the technical aspects of it, and don't actually do the webpages myself, but I'm 100% into the online culture and everything. I'm online a few times a day. It especially keeps me in contact with England as well, because of the time difference and everything.

lexx: Not only that, but from the standpoint of making the music available online, don't you bypass all the distribution middlemen, and the question of "Ok, next month we'll release the record in America, and if that goes well, we'll do Europe, and maybe Japan..." Don't you in effect bypass all that? I mean, it's the world wide web.

CS: It is the web, and you can order it from anywhere, yeah. You can order the CD internationally. It would come from America, obviously, but you can order it anywhere. You do definitely bypass all that. I really think the internet is going to completely change the music industry. And more and more artists are starting to also realize the profit margins are slightly different. [ed. note: This interview was conducted in 1997, when marketing music online directly to the listener was a new concept. Curt was right; the internet has changed the music industry.]

lexx: I can imagine.

CS: Instead of like a dollar or dollar fifty - or maybe two dollars, if you have a great deal - per CD, you're getting eight. You know, you're earning over four times as much. So to make the same amount of money, you only have to sell - what, less than a quarter the amount of albums.

lexx: Another definite advantage of being involved with the internet - more attractive profit margin! It really is exciting stuff. But do you ever feel overwhelmed at all?

CS: You mean with the amount of information?

lexx: No, not so much that. I mean for you personally and for the band, because it brings you so much closer to the fans, in a sense. The contact level is so much more immediate ... with fans, or with anybody really. Is that part of it overwhelming to you?

CS: No...it's just more realistic, to me. They tend to get to know you better, which means they don't put you on any form of pedestal. Or if they do, it's certainly not as big as you being completely detached and never talking to anyone. You know, it's not like I'm any form of enigma or anything, I'm just like another regular guy who happens to make music.

lexx: Yeah, but you know as well as I do that a lot of people don't perceive it that way. It's hard for them -

CS: Sure, true, they don't, or don't at first. But then they meet you, and they come to your shows, and they realize you just hang out with them, and have a drink with them, and eventually ... you know, they do - they realize it.

lexx: "Oh. He's just a guy like anyone else, it's just that he happens to play music."

CS: Right. Exactly.

lexx: Curt, thanks again. You've been very gracious.

CS: No problem, Linda. My pleasure.

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Visit Curt's website: http://www.curtsmithzerodisc.com/